Director Stephen Kijak speaks about his new film on HBO/Max, and why Rock Hudson took these secrets to the grave. Trailer can he found here.

The following is a transcript of the conversation between Karl and Stephen.

KARL
Hello there, welcome +Talk on +Life, where we’re all about turning positive into a plus. So today we’re talking Rock Hudson. There’s a new documentary out, “All That Heaven Allowed” and I’m joined by the film’s director, Stephen Kijak. Good to see you, sir.

STEPHEN
Hello, good to see you. Thanks for having me.

KARL
Why the story? Why tell it now? Why do you think it still matters?

STEPHEN
Well, I think it’s always a good time to tell and retell stories of LGBTQ+ people from all corners of history and just with the rise in backlash against LGBTQ people in the last number of years. It just feels like we’re in a terrible backslide. So, geez, getting these stories out, visibility is always optimal and this was a big widescreen story that had implications not just for Hollywood history, but, Rock Hudson’s story really impacted the early days of the HIV/AIDS crisis in a really meaningful way that bears retelling.

KARL
Yeah, the film is called “All That Heaven Allowed,” but I read that it was initially called The Accidental Activist. Why that title and why the change?

STEPHEN
Well, that title, I mean, it really in a way sums up a big part of the film perfectly. It is kind of still somewhat unknown how in control of his narrative he was during the last days of his life. He may very well have been content to go to the grave with his secret intact but it just wasn’t to be, so just the sheer fact that the news about him not only being gay but him having AIDS became public at that time. We’re talking 1985, when there was still so much confusion and fear around the issue. It made a huge impact on how people talked about it, on fundraising. It just can’t be understated. It’s really, it was a seismic shift. It was a huge shock to everybody.

KARL
Well, yeah, especially since the administration at the time, the Reagan administration weren’t even saying the words. And as you document in the film, Rock was close to Nancy Reagan. They were good friends and when assistance was asked for, she had the White House respond, didn’t she?

STEPHEN
The basic response of the administration was, “Well, if we help him, we have to help all of them.” So why bother? We can’t get involved with this right now.

KARL
I really like how you are able to put Rock’s queerness out there front and center, but you do it in such a unique, clever way by taking clips from his films, from his home movies and stuff, and perhaps not in the original context that they were meant for but you’re able to cut it together so it really shows his queerness. Was that, how did you come to that decision in putting the film together like that?

STEPHEN
Well, we wanted to show as many of the movies as we could and squeeze as much in there ’cause they’re great and they’re just so gorgeous to look at but there was a real desire to kind of queer the space for him.

Our greatest achievement in a way was to really slice movies together and kind of break it down so that in a way he could cruise guys in other movies, and we kind of sutured different films together to kind of create this the queer cinematic space for him to sort of let him be himself in a way that he couldn’t be back then.

KARL
One of the lines that sticks out to me from one of your interview subjects was, he was seen as the All-American boy and the American Boy got AIDS, and there’s something so sort of poignant and simple in just that one line that resonates to this day because we still think that HIV/AIDS is something that only affects white gay men or certain, IV, drug users but really it can affect the All-American Boy and that All-American Dream, can’t it?

STEPHEN
Well, yeah, that was the crucial turning point, even though now all of a sudden, the housewives and grannies who thought he was their big heart throb were confronted with the fact that he was a gay man. I mean, that in itself was a shock to the system but to just confront the fact that that character could have AIDS it was the first time someone that famous had been public about it willingly or not, and it was revealed in such a way it makes the general conversation shift really dramatically. So that was really, I think his major contribution and then of course, the initial funding that he threw at the cause becomes AmFAR, that Elizabeth Taylor then takes and builds into this powerful fundraising organization. So a lot of good came out of it.

KARL
As a filmmaker, as a storyteller, as someone in the industry in Hollywood, what role do you think Hollywood has in this day and age, fast forward to now, in telling the truth about what it means for people who are living with HIV to get the facts right, to share and tell stories that paint the real picture, not the 1985 picture.

STEPHEN
Yeah, no, it’s incredibly important. I mean, granted, I’m doing documentaries with a little bit outside the Hollywood mainstream as much as we can be in Hollywood, living in Los Angeles. But yeah, it’s interesting because, that is a narrative that still hasn’t gotten its due. I mean, there’s been significant movies and TV movies and things, a lot significantly, I think in the late-80s, early-90s. It’s one part of an ongoing battle to create visibility across the LGBTQ+ spectrum, or anybody living with HIV/AIDS doesn’t even have to be gay people.

KARL
What’s something that you learned about Rock in making this documentary that really surprised you and that has kind of stuck with you that you’ll carry with you?

STEPHEN
Do you want the cheeky answer or the?

KARL
Yeah, give me the cheeky, well, give me the cheeky and the truth. Tell us.

STEPHEN
Well, I love our interview with his old friend there who just could not possibly handle Rock’s manhood. Yeah, he was hung like a horse, apparently. But it just, it was, it came up a lot. But on the flip side of that, I mean, what it’s kind of a boring answer, but there isn’t a single person we found that said anything negative about him. He was truly one of the most beloved, respected, generous and kind people you would come across in Hollywood, and he didn’t do it performatively. I mean, he really, he helped young actors. He was really he would help crew members in need. He was just a really great guy apparently and through a hell of a pool party.

KARL
Stephen Kijak, thank you so much for your time. The documentary is called “Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed.” Check it out.

STEPHEN
Thank you, appreciate it.

KARL
That’s gonna do it for this episode of +Talk. If you want more information about anything we’ve talked about today, check out the website pluslifemedia.com and you can always follow us across social media. We are @PlusLifeMedia. Until next time, be nice to one another. Take care. I’ll see you soon.