Drag Queen Germany host, Barbie Breakout discusses being a positive public figure and how drag changed their life.
The following is a transcript of the conversation between Karl and Barbie.
BARBIE
At the moment it was out there. There was never a moment where I thought, eh maybe I shouldn’t tell anyone.
KARL
Welcome to Plus Talk and Plus Life where we’re all about turning positive into a plus. Someone who’s been doing that on the other side of the world in Germany is Barbie Breakout. And my gosh, what a career and legacy you have built already. Nice to see you. Guten tag.
BARBIE
Guten tag. That was very good.
KARL
Thanks for doing this. You host RuPaul’s Drag Race there in Germany. This show has just taken off around the world. You are living with HIV. You’re the I think the first HIV positive host of the franchise. What does this history-making role mean to you?
BARBIE
I mean, it’s the biggest honor of my life, to be frank. I’ve been religiously following the show for, I mean, 15 years now, right? I illegally streamed all the early versions until we got it on Netflix over here or until you could get the Wow app. I mean, it was one of the first, or it was the first like real representation for me as a drag queen to see somebody come out as HIV positive, Angina, I think season one. That was very touching for me, and I’ve been very interested of getting the show over here to Germany and it took forever and now it’s here and I’m just very excited.
KARL
You’ve said that doing drag has given you a bit of freedom. How so? Especially when it relates to your HIV status and being able to talk about it.
BARBIE
There’s no connection between drag and my HIV status. For me, drag has given me freedom in terms of I was struggling with my gender identity for a really long time. As a kid, I thought I was a girl. I felt like a girl and society told me I couldn’t be a girl, and I thought I was trans for a really long time, and I couldn’t really figure it out because I didn’t have the terminology yet. I didn’t know that non-binary was a thing. And so I was struggling with this, and I was wondering if I should start transitioning or not. And then with drag, I finally had an option to live the different versions of myself, the different parts of myself, and just have an outlet for them and I could like integrate everything. So that’s how drag helped me. I don’t think it gave me any freedom in terms of being open with my HIV status. That was a given from the beginning really.
KARL
Really? So you, there was never a time working in this profession and in this, you know, business. I know for myself, you know, I kind of, I sat on it for 10 years. I was out about my HIV status in my personal life, but you know, constantly told by people, oh, you don’t wanna be known as the guy with AIDS on television. Maybe it’s a little, which is a ridiculous statement in the first place, by the way.
BARBIE
Right.
KARL
But so you never had any sort of hesitation of you thinking, if I speak about this, this could have a negative impact on what I wanna do as an artist?
BARBIE
No. I did, I mean, I took like a week or two to just, you know, talk to my closest friends and like try to figure things out. But the moment it was out there, there was never a moment where I thought, eh, maybe I shouldn’t tell anyone. I feel that the industry I work in, I do hair and makeup. Before I started doing drag for a living, I thought it was kind of open to me sharing my status, and I never really had any problems in terms of, I never second guessed the decision really. And I had so much positive feedback over the years. So many people who felt empowered and who came to me and shared their status with me right after they had found out and stuff that it’s really, I don’t wanna say it’s been a blessing. But it’s been, it’s been a good experience for me.
KARL
Well, no, it’s interesting you say that because I’ve often said that, you know, my HIV diagnosis in so many ways saved my life and really was a blessing in that it has made me so much of a better human being. And you know, it’s easy for people who are not HIV positive to hear those words and go, oh my God, it’s, you know. But do you, I’m guessing you sort of feel as a similar way in that this is really, you know, it’s empowered you in so many ways.
BARBIE
I feel it’s very empowering to just be open about everything and be honest and truthful about everything in your life. And I always say HIV has made me kind of un-blackmailable if that’s a word.
KARL
Yeah.
BARBIE
You know, if you just live your truth and don’t give a nobody has any power over you and you can just live very freely, I feel.
KARL
So I know you wrote your first version of your autobiography in 2012. Was that experience and putting all of that, whether it was dealing with talking about your HIV or mental health or drugs or whatever, I’ve gotta imagine that was a very nice kind of like let that all out as you said, so no one can hold anything against you.
BARBIE
It was really a project that happened because of me finding out, because of my diagnosis. Because after I’d found out that I was positive, I was like, okay, I’m not gonna, I don’t want to do the party thing anymore. I don’t wanna do drag at the moment. I don’t wanna drink. I don’t wanna do drugs. I just wanna like sit with myself and find out what’s really important in my life and what really makes me happy. And that was a lot of time to spend alone and, you know, not do my regular things to regulate myself. And I just really needed a project. And then I started writing about other things and then eventually I was like, what do I really, what do I really know? What should I write about? And then, you know, as they say write what you know, I was like, hmm, what do I know better than my own life? And that’s how it started. And I have to say, looking back, the first version of the book, I’ve written two different versions. The first version was kind of the sugarcoated version a little bit. If I read it now, looking back, I can totally tell that I was processing things very much and that I was still trying to make sense of it all. And also had like a little bit of a pretend vibe going on where everything was just like it was still super glamorous and it was still, you know, hot sex and hot guys and drugs and dah dah dah. And it’s all so fabulous. But yeah, the second version is different.
KARL
You really went viral in 2013. You did a video of you, you sewed up your mouth. This was in protest for Russian neo-Nazi group called Occupy Pedophilia. When did you find that voice to become the activist? Was it, it was clearly if you do something like that, there’s a thought process behind it or what prompted that?
BARBIE
I’ve always been, even as a child, I had those moments when like there was a kid in my, I think it was in fourth grade or third grade. And there was a kid in my, in the class next to me and he was Muslim and he couldn’t join the, do you guys have that like religion in school? Do you have that?
KARL
Oh like you have.
BARBIE
As a class?
KARL
Yeah religious classes. Well, where I come from in Australia, yes, where and I guess certain schools do, but yes there are classes in school.
BARBIE
Germany, have that.
KARL
And yeah.
BARBIE
And it was separated between like Evangelical and Catholic. And because he was Muslim, there was no class for him, and he was not allowed to join even though he wanted to. And he was sad about that, but they just ignored him. And immediately there, even if third or fourth grade, I don’t know, I did this like strike in front of the school. I sat down and I refused to move. And I was like, he has to have his own class. Yeah, I was very motivated very early on and that kind of just never went away. And in 2013 this, I mean, yes, it was planned but it was, I was just sitting there and I was watching those videos of those people being lured into those situations and then tortured on camera while those neo-Nazis were laughing at them and filming them and just being horrible garbage of human trash. And I just got so angry and at the same time, I felt so helpless because I couldn’t do anything. It was in Russia. And so I thought, what can I do to create something that would make the world, you know, look at them and look at the situation and maybe if enough press is looking that way, maybe something’s gonna change, and I can help them somehow. And that’s how this idea came about.
KARL
You talk about wanting to educate the masses about all things queer, about HIV, about racism, transphobia. What’s the one thing when it relates to HIV specifically that you really hope people hear and come to understand?
BARBIE
In general, of course it would be world peace, but.
KARL
We’re not on the pageant stage now, Barbie.
BARBIE
I think right now the most important thing, it’s very palpable here in Europe, also in Germany, that there’s been a gigantic right wing take over in the works, and it’s happening everywhere, and it’s happening here. And just because it’s so scary, especially coming from Germany, we know where this goes. This is right now of course the most urgent thing. I feel that people need to understand that, you know, queer people are not a danger to your children or to anything else. This is all a smokescreen. And you know, the real issues are other ones. I feel like if I should, if I would have to pin it down like if there’s one thing I need people to understand it’s that. Like we really cannot go in that direction ever again.
KARL
Does it shock you that people in this day and age with all the science, with all the messaging, with people like you, people like me who use our voices very publicly and loudly to talk specifically about HIV, that people are still closing their ears and their eyes to things like you equals you and other things like that and are still looking at people like you and I like dirty diseased deviants?
BARBIE
Absolutely. That’s shocking. But at the same time, I feel everybody’s so busy with so many other things and people are so scared about so many other things. It’s just so very comfortable I think to ostracize people and to, you know, scapegoats.
KARL
Listen, I think what you’re doing, whether it’s through your activism or certainly being the face of Drag Race Germany says a lot and does a lot to change people’s hearts and minds about HIV and what it means to live with HIV. Barbie Breakout, thank you for spending some time with me today.
BARBIE
Thank you.
KARL
Been a pleasure.
BARBIE
Same here.
KARL
That’s gonna do it for this episode of Plus Talk. If you want more information, check out the website pluslifemedia.com or check us out on social media. We are at Plus Life Media. Until next time, please be nice to one another. It’s not that difficult. We’ll see you soon. Bye-bye.