He’s committed to silencing stigma. Karl sits with activist Robbie Lawlor to discuss stigma, and the documentary, How to Tell a Secret. https://www.howtotellasecret.com.
The following is a transcript between Robbie and Karl.
ROBBIE
We need to break out of this cycle of shame, stigma, and silence.
KARL
Hello there. Welcome to plus talk on plus life, where we’re all about turning positive into a plus. And my guest today is joining me from Ireland. He has been turning positive into a plus in Ireland for almost 10 years. Robbie, Lawlor, good to see you.
ROBBIE
Thanks so much for having me, Karl. Big fan. So I’m delighted to be here. Well,
KARL
The feeling is mutual. You are kind of like the, the, the hot poster child for AIDS in Ireland. And I say that a slightly tongue in cheek, but there is a bit of reality to that because you have really become a powerful face and voice for HIV in a country that, you know, watching your documentary film how to Tell a secret seems like there hasn’t been much talk about H hiv V and aids.
ROBBIE
Yeah, completely. Karl, when people ask you when you’re younger, what you wanna be when you grow up? I never thought a poster boy for HIV when people wouldn’t have the, but to be honest, I always say I’d never change a thing because HI Vfor me was such a blessing in disguise. It got to meet most amazing people. And this brought me and around the world, and you can see the impact of what you do. But you’re right, when I was diagnosed back in 2012, there wasn’t one person that I knew open about their status in Ireland, even though there were thousands of people lived from HIV in Ireland. And there just is a proper indicator of the stigma that is here in Ireland if people didn’t feel safe enough to come out about their status. And to be honest, when I was diagnosed with HIVI had the best friends, best family reaction. I had my man there from the beginning. So when I started making all these friends with my HIV and I started hearing like instances of them experiencing stigma, what I realized was all the stigma that that was like put on us was because people were just so ignorant to HIV, you know, the reference playing distills Fred Mercury in this country. And so it’s like, how do we change it? And I realized that I was actually part of the problem, right? Because I’ve had all my friends and families backing, I had this story and I wanted to pursue a new career. So I heard like Robbie, go out there, share your story and just educate the country because it, it wasn’t an epidemic of HIV, even IHIV rates were rising in Ireland at the time. It was an epidemic of silence. So we need a break out of this cycle of shame, stigma, and silence. And, and that’s what I’ve done. And now we have so many other great people, bigger side this now it feels like there’s momentum in this country. Right. Well,
KARL
You say, and I should point out, you know, we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit about the film in a minute, how to tell the secret. But there’s a moment in that film where you say, I just want to be that person I that, that you wish was there when you were diagnosed. And, and going back to what I said in the intro about kind of being the poster boy, you are now that person and you have become that person for people who are newly diagnosed, how does that responsibility weigh on you?
ROBBIE
I don’t really see it as a responsibility. It’s just something that I know that needs to happen. You know, it’s, I, I don’t see it. I don’t feel like there’s weight on my shoulders. I just know that I have, I have a voice, I have a story, and I have a community around me who are uplifting me and are now coming out and lifting themselves up as well. I don’t feel there’s a responsibility. It’s, and I’m driven by anger to be honest. I’m driven by anger from my friends. That stigma exists. That’s no education really still in this country, that people live in shame and silence when they shouldn’t. So I was just so angry and I was like, I felt almost helpless until I found my power. And so I don’t feel that as a responsibility. I just feel riven for me, for young me 2012 or every 21-year-old Robbie got diagnosed and my community of friends.
KARL
Exactly. And I can relate to that being that that anger, that that sort of, the fire in the belly that just drives you, that you just go, nobody, nobody should have to feel guilty or shameful when they get that diagnosis. That’s the last thing they should be thinking. I, I want to talk about something else that comes up in the documentary. The, the in the film that I found really interesting and I think we don’t talk about it enough, is that you didn’t have a great reaction to the first lot of meds you were given. And they make it sound very much like, okay, here’s the great thing, it’s better than diabetes, it’s easier to manage. You’re gonna get this one pill and you’re gonna take it and you’re gonna become undetectable and everything’s gonna be great. And, and in theory, that’s what we want to happen. And look for me, that’s what happened. But you and plenty of other people out there don’t have that experience. Just recap that for me a little bit and what you thought, because it was quite debilitating mentally and physically, right?
ROBBIE
The very first one, they said, take this big pink pill before you go to sleep at night. You’ll see to your most of the side effects you might get a few funny dreams. Well, next thing you know, it’s like I took a tab of LSDI was singing, I was dancing. It was like, I, I was like, hi, I all look coolest in the room, just loaded. And I remember taking myself, I’m like, Hey J, these are sometime, you know, what the, why are you for it? But the next day I couldn’t lift my head off, you know, I was lifeless and around six, seven o’clock every day I felt like the effects were wearing off. By 10 o’clock I took that big pimp pill. By 11 o’clock I was high again. And that happened for two weeks, Carl. And it wasn’t until the, the 14th day that I couldn’t even lift up the, for I felt lifeless. And I remember turning into my mom saying, man, I’d rather have two years left in my life than talk pill one more day. And my man being my man literally dragging me into the clinic, right? Without an appointment. And she’s like, what are you doing to my son? You are making him sicker. Because I didn’t feel sick by h HIV like many people, right from my diagnosis. And when the, A nurse heard about all my side effects, she’d give out to me. She’s like, Robby, we have so many different side, we have so many different medications out there that if they were this bad, you could’ve just changed it. And I was like, no one told me that I genuine. ’cause no one this HIV that I knew of, I didn’t have peer support. So I thought HIV was such a toxic thing that the treatment was a chemotherapy. That’s generally what I thought. And then I took this new drug there, just had to take a few calories with and have it with a sandwich. And by the second day I could smile again and you know, when I could smile again, then I was like, okay, now I can get handled on HIVI can deal with the stigma, the societal thing I can deal with that. I, you just need your health. You need your health because when your mental health is affected by your medication as well, it’s a, it’s a much trickier journey to go through and much, much trickier one. But then we have other side effects like, you know, one was affecting my kidneys, I have a specific gene, so I couldn’t have another specific drug. I had three separate drugs once a day. So a bit of pill burden even though I was like, you know, taking it as prescribed. And then a new drug came on the market and then now my cholesterol’s both going through the roof for that. But now I’m like, sixth option Carl and eyesight is like taking a tick packet. It freshens my breath once a day, zero side effects and I’ll probably be on it for the rest of my life, you know? And it really is just one pill a day for me. And I don’t like to almost demean people’s what other people’s experiences. But for me it’s literally one tablet a day. HIV affects no one but me. And I go one with life. So this little pink, a green pill now just, yeah, it makes me happy and it made me reclaim my life and some super, super, super happy for it. But yeah, the journey was ous for sure.
KARL
Well, but I think that’s a really important story that you just shared because for a lot of people, they’re probably in exactly that same boat as you. You know that because not just in Ireland, but in, you know, plenty of parts here in the United States and in Australia and around the world, people don’t talk about HIV, there’s nothing about it anywhere. Show. Yeah, you’re a young person, you get that diagnosis, the doctor says, take this pill every day. You go II captain. And if it, if it doesn’t work for you, you could feel very isolated and alone and go, this is it. And to your point, you said, I’d rather be dead in two years than have to take this for the rest of my life. But the point being, there are options. And so you sharing that story hopefully will resonate with people in our audience how to tell a secret, a fantastic film. Just quickly, how did that come about? And I know you’ve won awards, the Poland Film Festival and everywhere else. Tell me a bit about that.
ROBBIE
Basically when I got diagnosed, I had to go back to site people and say, I’ve got HB diagnosis, you need to get checked. Okay? And one, there was a guy called Sean Dunn, who is also have so happens to be a playwright. Anyways, he was so good when I disclosed to him, fast forward a few years, he was like, Robbie, I want me and you to make a co-create a documentary theater film, a theater play about people’s experiences living age to be in Ireland. And I was like, this is such a safe way to get people’s stories to the masses. So I was like, absolutely. So we got over 40 testimonies. We made a great take called Rapids that went honor in Ireland, got us on the Late Late Show, which is like an institution in Ireland. And then from that we have Invisible Tread this production team who worked with Sean to turn the play into a movie. So the movie is kind of a genre bending, you know, amazing way of sharing people’s stories. It’s better how we navigate disclosure because you know, if we have access to healthcare, one of the hardest things to do is to disclose our status. It’s, it’s something that we’re asked all the kind, Kara, you know this Oh yeah, who you tell people live with HIV and everyone’s on a different journey. Some people wanna talk to me just some people just wanna tell the man dad or children. And so we really wanted to explore that, how people do it, why we don’t share our story and why people don’t. And we don’t, and we’re not preachy in it, but all genders are represented in it. All sexualities are represented in it. It’s genre bending as in there’s theater, there’s documentary, it’s film. And the reason why we do that is because we can have different actors play people’s stories and it’s just as a really safe way of doing it. And in Ireland, unfortunately that way we were making a movie, we didn’t have one woman in Ireland who feels safe enough to out about their status. And this is 2022, well, 2020 to 2022 in Ireland. Can you imagine? So we really wanted to have, even if it’s female actors representing even a man’s story, it’s just to show that women can have HJB. So it’s even powering just that representation. Now I can, I can, I’m very happy to say since the movie we have had more women come out make their status. And not saying of the movie, but I’m saying it kind of helped too. So definitely helps with the momentum. But the movie is very powerful. It’s quite beautiful to watch as well. But do you know what I like, Carl? It’s that it’s a contemporary love at Living with HIV
KARL
Robbie. Lola, thank you so much for giving me your time and sharing your experiences and, and, and really as I said at the beginning, putting your face to HIV for the community, not just in Ireland, but around the world.
ROBBIE
I appreciate it. Karl, you’re not a bad poster by yourself.
Karl
Well, we, we, we will see about that. I got some ears on you. That is gonna do it for this episode of Plus Talk. If you want more information about what we’ve talked, talked about, check out our website plus life media.com. And remember, you can follow us across social media platforms. We are at Plus Life Media. We’ll put all of Robbie’s details as well as the details about the documentary, how To Tell a Secret and The Pause Vibes Podcast, where you can catch that. Until next time, be nice to one another. Say hi to your mom for me. See you soon.